Curse

Akshara · Jul 19, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

If a monk was GOOD, and he charged for his service, (oh and lets say he already proved he was a good monk by i dunno, doing the previous mission with you) would you pay for his service? YES/NO ?

No.

I would not party with anyone who charged the team to participate normally, whether if it was 10k or 100g. That player's interest in being in our party is motivated by self-serving interests and greed, and they more than likely have an over-inflated sense of their importance in a group... so I would have zero interest in partying with them.

Drakron · Jul 19, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

Frankly, I've been seriously considering charging a nominal fee (1 platinum per run) just like you pay when entering the Underworld. Perhaps if people have paid cash they might even behave better.

What a great idea. I think I'm going to try it. I could really use the cash.

No, they will be worst ... not better and you know why?

Because they paid you and so expect you to be able to heal party for 500 hp every second, they expect you to complete the mission solo and have everyone having gold drops.

If they act bad because you are the monk and not keeping then alive imagine what they will act as they are now paying you to keep then alive and they are being killed.

Paul Templar · Jul 19, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I have a monk and would never charge others its the same ole thing what goes around comes around there are times I need a monk for my other chars its only giving back to others what they have given to me for free because of the nature of the game is to rely on team work it goes for pvp
If someone is only doing it for gold then their head is in the wrong space for getting enjoyment out of being a team member knowing ur part counts its not because ur out to make a quick buck
There is no way u can tell if they are any good and from what I have seen some are not very good at being a monk rather they are using the need of others to get gold.
Comes across as selfish and goes against the whole concept of the team spirit
Its a buzz having a great team and winning knowing it was done together willingly

generik · Jul 20, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison

Characters like Rangers on the other hand, have no real need and serve no direct purpose, outside of designated puller. They dont do the damage of an elementalist, or can heal unless they carry a monk secondary, and arent particuliarly adept tanks. So at the end of the day, why wouldnt you be better off with an additional elementalist? Even though this fact remains, about 50% of characters I see are Rangers.

That is why a ranger doesnt deserve to be paid for anything. A monk, because they chose to play a boring character that nobody else wants to, and also simutaneously serve as a building block to most teams, has elevated themselves to a premium level, while overused next to useless PvE classes like Rangers are a dime a dozen. Its supply and demand in its most raw form.

Ignorance.. friend.. ignorance.

Now, don't get me wrong, my favorite character is my echo ele, and I really enjoy those moments when mobs are bombarded so heavily by my meteors that they can barely raise their heads

But even in the brief time I spent on my ranger, I certainly know they are a lot more than just a puller, and they certainly dish a lot more damage that warriors, and have the ability to invoke EVERY condition in the game on a target.

Poisoned, crippled, dazed, blinded.... the list goes... whatever you need, only the ranger has them all.

Oh, and do you know that no other spell in the game heals more than healing spring for its mana cost?

Rangers certainly have their place, and I admit they really take a lot more skill to be played well.

tolokoph · Jul 20, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

hmm.. who actually thinks its fun staring at health bars?.. you know how difficult it is keeping teams alive in situations. I myself have debated charging.. yes I play primary monk..

It's the only character I play basically for a few reasons..

MY TEAM you all spout out about is my GUILD... I play a Monk for my team, because basically there is a real shortage of monks.

No I don't love it. It was a sacrafice I made.

Basically everyone wants to just run around hit this cast spell at that.. woohoo its fun.. no real responsablity..

Any moron warrior can tank.. Any moron caster can hit meteor/firestorm/fireball and whatever else. Any Idiot Ranger can pull a mob and stand back clicking weapons with no worries in the word..

You wanna know why?.. Cause there's a dang MONK keeping you all alive WITH 100 times more responsability then any other person on the team.

I haven't ever charged, and don't plan on it, but all you warriors and other classes saying blah blah blah.. I wouldn't pay someone. that's fine, but before you bitch about a monk charging.. you can't cause you are not even in the same universe as a monk with his/her part of the group.

thanks for your time ;p

Lost · Jul 20, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

I enjoy playing a monk because of the added responsibility. My reward is seeing whatever team I'm helping complete their mission/quest. I've had people afterwards offer me up to 5k sometimes but I always refused. Being a monk should not be a chore. If someone doesn't like monking then they should not be a monk. Let there be a monk shortage, it might make players realize that they should do a better job of keeping themselves alive and not just assume there is a monk nearby to always come to the rescue.

Mo/R9 · Jul 20, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I have one thing to say on this thread, if anyone wants a free monk for any mission before ascention, try PSTing Orisin of Peace (yeah, me).

Spartan2 · Jul 20, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Those that ask for payment for being a group's monk are greedy and usually suck. Not all, mind you, are bad, but the general consensus is that most who charge for something that could be done for free is just encouraging others to scam.

If being a monk is just so darn awful and hard, why don't you ask for someone with a build to augment your "Problems with healing effectively". Ask for someone to do Protection if they can, ask for a Necro to get you some extra Energy Regen pips, ask for anything to help your current situation! This way you do not have to rely on just one or two people to get everything done. If you have a class that can make your job easier, then there will not be anymore of this obsurd charging for a needed game mechanic.

Seeing this, I might as well charge people for bringing me along to throw up wards and keep tanks and casters alike from taking damage, cuz without me, you have to do a whole lot more healing monks!

generik · Jul 20, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Being a monk IS a chore.. everybody blames the monk, it is a fact.

I really hate being a monk in fissure, you can tell how good a group is 5 mins into the game when warriors keep attacking when they have spiteful spirit and wipe out half the party. It is also no surprise when I see the other monk quit at that point, what am I to do? That party is bunked, I'm merely wasting my time delaying the inevitable by staying.

Besides nowadays monks are probably busy farming griffons and smites all by themselves, no hassles and no insults to put up with!

If you want good healing, you gotta make it worth their while, else for that time they are spending they could probably have gotten a storm bow, or globs of ectos, ALL BY THEMSELVES. That's right people, they do not need to put up with your insults and abuses, EVERYONE ELSE is redundant, they are the only ones who can do it themselves.

If I have to put it that way, yes, monks are the ONLY class that is truly above all others in terms of value to a party. Next time before you are about to go "Noob monk! Rez me!", remember this, YOU are INVITED by the monk to come along, nobody needs you there.

mthegreatone · Jul 20, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

to me it doesn't seem right to charge ppl at all to run you thru just a computer game. with that said, i guess it wouldn't really matter cuz by the time you're in the later parts of the game you should have enuff gold on-hand that you shouldn't have to worry about running out i guess.

Spartan2 · Jul 20, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

I agree with that, generik, but there are people who let you do your thing and respect how a Monk operates. I know it is tough to be a monk and be expected to heal everyone, no matter how stupid they are; however, I will never pay a monk to come with my party, no matter how good they are, because I have my build set-up purposefully to aleviate the amount of healing that a Monk has to do. Ward against melee, Monk has to do 50% less healing for 19 seconds on the tank and the spell is back up a second later; Protective spirit, even if the attack gets thru to the tank or whoever, it is now brough down to 40-60 damage which is easily managable; Aegis, if a monk is using this spell as well, the effects can be maintained all throughout a fight instead of just half of it. That being said, I also interrupt AoE, spike, and can spam damage if the team is in need.

If a Monk deems that they still need to be payed even after I, as a party leader or as a player, have geared myself or the team so that the monk's job is a walk in the park, then they simply aren't worth it.

Paul Templar · Jul 20, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

I enjoy playing a monk its different to the other classes ok its a pain sometimes keeping some twits alive and only looking at the health bar looking up to see if any drops were for you but all in all I wouldnt be a monk if I couldnt handle it
When I've had enough with that go off exploring grab some henches and go into some hard areas then have some fun it provides a change and with my other chars I know what to do to help the monk and what to expect from a good monk

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 20, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

heres a situation :

I've been sitting around in a mission area spouting "Group Needs Monk 1 spot left" or some such for coming up on 1/2 an hour, sick of waiting for the ever elusive monk, I decide stuff it, and check my friends list to see if that monk-for-hire is available. he is, he arrives, he joins up, I pay him, and were off to do the mission

in other words, HELL YES, i'd pay a monk (if I know hes good. I'd trial him out, everyone deserves a chance)

I dont know about you lot, but how many times have you suggested "Just take a healer henchie" and people have said "no, lets get a real monk"

in that situation, 90% of the time, no monk is around, so you take the henchies, only to have alesia go tank a jade armor and die, then with no healing you all die.

Paul Templar · Jul 20, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin_Adoni

heres a situation :

I've been sitting around in a mission area spouting "Group Needs Monk 1 spot left" or some such for coming up on 1/2 an hour, sick of waiting for the ever elusive monk, I decide stuff it, and check my friends list to see if that monk-for-hire is available. he is, he arrives, he joins up, I pay him, and were off to do the mission

in other words, HELL YES, i'd pay a monk (if I know hes good. I'd trial him out, everyone deserves a chance)

I dont know about you lot, but how many times have you suggested "Just take a healer henchie" and people have said "no, lets get a real monk"

in that situation, 90% of the time, no monk is around, so you take the henchies, only to have alesia go tank a jade armor and die, then with no healing you all die.

the only way if u have to pay someone is if your played with them before and have them on ur friends list and if they are willing to do it for you then yes that way u know you are paying for someone who knows what they are doing
but taking the risk of some stupid little twit making a monk for the purpose of making gold out of others when they dont know what they are doing makes me see red

Kali Ma · Jul 20, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

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Cause there's a dang MONK keeping you all alive WITH 100 times more responsability then any other person on the team.

I'm a N/Mo20 and spend probably 75% of my time in parties bumping our Monk's energy regen, keeping them alive when they are in trouble, and making their job easier by casting wells which keep the warriors in good health. The rest of the time I'm either raising fiends/horrors for extra meat shields, or support healing the rest of the party.

Yet does the Monk ever heal me after I give them energy, at the expense of my own health? No... in most groups, I'm the first one they let die because I'm not "important" to the group. Do they ever say "thank you" for the help? No... I've only ever had ONE monk who openly appreciated, or even acknowledged, my assistance.

Quote:

monks are the ONLY class that is truly above all others in terms of value to a party. Next time before you are about to go "Noob monk! Rez me!", remember this, YOU are INVITED by the monk to come along, nobody needs you there.

The best monks I've partied with were quiet ones, who did such a great job that no one really noticed. The one I mentioned above even recognized the type of support healing I could do, and concsiously got into a rhythm with me so that we weren't stepping on each other's toes with our spells, yet complementing each other. All of the really great monks I've encountered were humble, friendly and seemed to understand that everyone mattered in a succesful party. Parties with these type of monks tend to be really tight, have great teamwork and are generally a lot of fun to be in.

The worst monks I've partied with are the ones who talk a lot, about how important they are, or start bossing others around with threats to not heal if so and so doesn't get in line and do it their way. They generally have very poor rhythm with their spells, are willing to let others die fairly easily, and are so myopically enthralled with their own narcissitic fantasy of being the "important member" that they fail to acknowledge or appreciate the role every other member is playing to help make the party a cohesive unit. Parties with these type of monks tend to dissolve into an "every person for themself" mentality, with very little thought to teamwork and cooperative strategy.

I was in a party with one of the latter just last night, where the monk thought he was the only necessary person on the team (even going so far as to say it at one point), and threatened to not heal anyone but the tank if they aggro'd anything, no less than five minutes into the mission. They ran in front ahead of everyone and barked orders to everybody, often talking down to the rest of us as if we were noobs.... and frankly, he was one of the worst healers I've ever partied with. Our entrie party died at least five times over, and he still went on about how it was all our fault, and if we'd just do it right then no one would die. However, I happen to know for a fact that I was doing 50% of the healing that whole time.

At one point, I just stopped Bip'ing and healing him for a bit... he died in under 20 seconds, with a steady stream of curses in all caps.

Charge for your services if you want to... but then you better be really, freaking good at playing a monk - and not in your own mind, but for real. I however will save my Bips for Alesia... she does great, if you treat her right.

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 20, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Templar

taking the risk of some stupid little twit making a monk for the purpose of making gold out of others when they dont know what they are doing makes me see red

Id take the risk once.

but regarldess, the fact that he has started the last thread to find the best way to go about this shows me hes not some "stupid little twit"

that train of thought is WAY worse than someone who charges for services, you are presuming that he is an idiot who knows nothing about what he is doing and is only out to make money.

Dax · Jul 20, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

My 2 cents on this is-
If monks are so wanted they should have no problem getting a party... they should be happy with that.

If you don't like looking at health bars and think it's too much work.... pic another class.

I'd rather have alesia than someone who charges, pardon me when I laugh in your face if you ask for money.

...but if you wanna charge, hey go for it.

Paul Templar · Jul 20, 2005, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin_Adoni

Id take the risk once.

but regarldess, the fact that he has started the last thread to find the best way to go about this shows me hes not some "stupid little twit"

that train of thought is WAY worse than someone who charges for services, you are presuming that he is an idiot who knows nothing about what he is doing and is only out to make money.

not talking about the thread author I'm talking about those who have no idea about what it is to be a monk and their sole purpose is to farm gold off other players
why on earth would I call him a "stupid little twit"?
dont flame me if you cant read

Lethal_Poison · Jul 20, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Ignorance.. friend.. ignorance.

Now, don't get me wrong, my favorite character is my echo ele, and I really enjoy those moments when mobs are bombarded so heavily by my meteors that they can barely raise their heads

But even in the brief time I spent on my ranger, I certainly know they are a lot more than just a puller, and they certainly dish a lot more damage that warriors, and have the ability to invoke EVERY condition in the game on a target.

Poisoned, crippled, dazed, blinded.... the list goes... whatever you need, only the ranger has them all.

Oh, and do you know that no other spell in the game heals more than healing spring for its mana cost?

Rangers certainly have their place, and I admit they really take a lot more skill to be played well.

And why exactly does anyone need that in PvE? Id much rather have an elementalist hitting 10 different enemies for 60 each a second then you shooting your little poison arrows at them one at a time. Id much rather have an extra meat shield standing infront of me, then another "stand in the back with the casters, but not nearly have the effect of those casters" character.

A good ranger is annoying in PvP, but Ive yet to see any real use for them in PvE. Ive never once been in a party where the ranger has meant so much that they couldnt have easily been replaced by just about anything else, save for a mesmer, and there would have been a positive benefit.

Both mesmers and rangers can provide assistance in a group, I wont deny that, and they have their unique uses, but what I am saying is that either one of them has nowhere near the value of a monk, elementalist, warrior or even a necro in a PvE group. That is why noone is ever spamming "need a ranger for group". So when noone really needs a ranger, and there is tons of them, I think they are overwhelmingly the most popular character class, why should they be paid for their services? How can they even ask for payment for their services when there are 22 more rangers standing around begging to get in a mission party? Like I said, its raw supply and demand. Monks are by far the most useful character, and also the character most people want no business playing because of the boring, mundaneness of being one. In the same way people are willing to pay a million bucks for a Honus Wagner baseball card, but not 15 cents for a 1990 Donruss Rafael Belliard baseball card, monks are elevated to premium status. While it may not be ethical to run about charging for a classes services, if the market bares it, then obivously their services are worth that much of a premium if measured in gold.

PieXags · Jul 20, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

A monk who would request payment for doing what he's supposed to be doing isn't worth my time (or money). I'd rather take the monk henchmen than a monk who would ask for 1k to come along. It's people like that, and droknar runners, everyone who "charges" for what their class is capable of that's ruining the economy. You've got an assload of rich monks and warriors, and near poor everyone else. It's stupid when people can make all the money they'd need in-game just by saying "Hey, I'll only come with you for 3k" Yeah, sorry, but any monk who'd charge for his services...problably isn't that great anyway. At least no better than any other monk around.

I honestly can't stand people who stand in town for 20 minutes going "group of 6 need two monks for mission/bonus!" I mean...honestly, I've NEVER had a problem on any of my characters just using henchmen for the missions, EXCEPT abbadon's mouth. Other than that, monk henchmen were just fine, if not better, than most monks I found. It's stupid really.

Yeah people in real-life hospitals get payed.

But so do soldiers.

And...everyone else who has a profession.